you presume to say a word disrespectfully was necessary for the purposes of justice. of me, I shall kick you about the streets." Having said this, it was only necessary to I immediately quitted the room, and add, that justice required the protection nothing further occurred; I took no of an infirm old man, against the petulance notice in the world of it; I hope I kept of a young one. my temper. The witness was directed to withdraw.

Mr. Wynn thought the only way was to call in Mr. T. W. Grady. He was accordingly called in, and thus examined by the Speaker.

The House has been informed that you have held a conversation with Mr. Goold, who is a witness at the bar of this House, yesterday, upon the subject of his examination of last night; have you had any conversation with Mr. Goold, and what was that conversation?-I had. State to the House what passed?Certainly; I stated to Mr. Goold that I had heard that he had made use of my name very wantonly; I requested of him not to do so any more, for that if he should do so, I should be under the disagreeable necessity of taking notice of it; of kicking him.

Did Mr. Goold make any reply to that statement?-None whatsoever.

That is all that passed between you?That is all that passed between us. Mr. Grady was directed to withdraw.

Mr. Wynn then moved, 1." That Thomas William Grady, having used insulting language to a witness attending this House, and having threatened him with personal violence on account of evidence already given by him, and which he may hereafter be called upon to give at the bar of this House, has thereby been guilty of a high contempt of this House, and of a gross breach of its privileges. 2. That the said T. W. Grady be for his said offence taken into the custody of the serjeant at arms attending this House, and that Mr. Speaker do issue his warrant accordingly."

Sir R. Wilson said, it was quite manifest that Mr. Grady's conduct proceeded from youth and inexperience. He considered Mr. Goold's conduct as he had always been accustomed to consider insults. It must be apparent to the House, that he was extremely inexperienced, and a youth of a weak character. He hoped, therefore, that they would regard with indulgence an indiscretion in which no contempt or breach of privilege had been contemplated.

Mr. Bankes said, the question was not what indulgence the youth and inexperience of Mr. Grady might claim, but what

The resolutions were agreed to nem. con. Then Mr. Carew Smith was again examined. After which,

Sir R. Wilson stated, that he had no other witness to call in support of the petition, but the petitioner himself. As the petitioner, a young and inexperienced man, was necessarily much agitated by having fallen under the displeasure of the House, and by the apprehension of being sent to Newgate, he should move that the farther consideration of the matter of charge be adjourned to Monday.

Mr. Canning asked, whether the hon. member meant not to proceed in the examination of the petitioner till he was allowed to kick the other witnesses?

Sir R. Wilson acknowledged that the petitioner had committed a great fault of which the House was obliged to take notice, though he hoped that a severe reprimand might have answered the ends of justice; but what he meant now to assert was, that he should not do justice to the public, to the House or to the petitioner, if he suffered the examination of the petitioner to proceed when he was in a state of agitation.

Mr. Canning said, the petitioner had been committed to the custody of the serjeant at arms to secure another witness against his outrage. The hon. member had assumed that he was also to be sent to Newgate, though no such proposition had been mentioned in his hearing.

Mr. Wynn thought the House bound to declare and make known, that its witnesses should not be insulted. Those who with him had read the private letters in this case, would know the necessity of proceeding cautiously, and of showing the determination of the House to resent any attempt to violate its privileges in the person of its witnesses. He thought at the conclusion of the proceedings it might be advisable to pass some resolutions to that effect, for which there were not wanting precedents.

Mr. Peel trusted the House would deal leniently with the offence of this young

man.

It was not to be forgotten that, though standing in the situation of a petitioner against a member of the House, he had heard grave facts stated against himself. It was to be remembered, too, that

Lord C. Churchill said, that his opinion being that the petitioner would not give his evidence with self-possession while in custody, he should move, "That Thomas William Grady be now brought to the bar, in order to his being reprimanded and discharged."

his father had been recently committed to | The first fact to which he should refer Newgate; so that, taking all circumstances was this: the inhabitants of the parish of into consideration, the House might act Christ-church met to petition against the with leniency, without forming an incon- bill. In the course of the proceedings it venient precedent. was suggested, that it would be proper, in the first place, to try how far it was practicable to sweep chimnies by machinery. A machine was produced and experiments made; and the result was so satisfactory, that the very persons who assembled for the purpose of petitioning against the bill, actually signed a petition. for it. The other fact had occurred in making the experiments on the chimnies connected with the House of Commons. In consequence of the directions of the Speaker, a person had proceeded to sweep with a machine, and he could only sweep 19 chimnies out of 61: the housekeeper was, however, determined to continue the experiment, and, under his superintendence, no less than 60 of the 61 were swept. The chimney that remained unswept required some alteration to render it accessible to the machine. Having stated these facts, he moved that the bill be now committed.

Mr. Lambton and sir Robert Wilson concurred in the motion. Mr. S. Wortley and Mr. Courtenay objected to it, as unjust to Mr. Goold, and as not likely to render the witness more collected, or more fit to deliver his evidence.

Mr. Grattan said, the case of Mr. Goold was very hard. He had been called over from Ireland to the great prejudice of his private business, and while delivering his evidence as a man of honour, he had been attacked by a young man with the grossest outrage. It was the duty of the House to alleviate the feelings of Mr. Goold, and to protect him in the discharge of his duty.

The motion was negatived. After which, Mr. Goold was again examined. Mr. Lambton being of opinion that further evidence must necessarily be brought from Ireland, to settle a point which at present was inexplicable, and which implicated the credibility of the two principal witnesses, moved, "That Thomas Lambert, servant of Mr. Carew Smith; Sarah Lyons, servant of Dr. Smth; and Hugh Riley, servant of Mr. Goold; do attend this House on Thursday 18th March." The motion was agreed to, and the further hearing of the matter of the complaint was adjourned till Monday.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Monday, March 15. CHIMNEY SWEEPERS REGULATION BILL.] Lord Auckland said, that no argument of any weight against the bill had been urged which was not fully answered. He should, however, take the liberty of adverting to the facts which had since occurred, and which tended to prove what he had before observed, namely, that whatever prejudices existed against the use of machinery, was generally among persons unacquainted with its use; and that an appeal to experiment was always sure to overcome that prejudice.

The Earl of Lauderdale said, he was always disposed to give public bodies, as well as individuals, credit for acting with a due regard to their own interests. Now, if their lordships looked at the case on this principle, they would soon discover, that the insurance offices would have reason to be well pleased at the passing of this bill. It would increase the danger of fire, and in proportion to the risk, the rate of the insurance and the number of insurances would augment. In fact, the bill promised to open to them a fruitful source of gain. It was absurd, therefore, to found any argument on these corporations not petitioning against it. The supporters of the bill contended, that the chimnies of the metropolis could be nearly all swept by machines. Now, were this the fact, he would at once withdraw his opposition; but, if the report of the surveyorgeneral was to be relied on, no such power was to be attributed to the machines. Colonel Stephenson had distinctly stated, that the total abolition of climbing boys was at present impracticable, and could not be attempted without endangering the general safety of the metropolis. But it will be replied, that it is not intended that the bill shall operate immediately; that in passing it, time will be afforded for the preparation of machinery; but colonel Stephenson's report contained satisfactory

The Earl of Harrowby said, he was not able to entertain their lordships with any jokes, either relative to himself, or ex

very little was necessary to be said to induce them to support a measure founded in humanity, and which they had reason to conclude was perfectly practicable. He could not, however, refrain from observing, that the noble earl had, in some measure, shifted the ground of his oppo

reasons for refusing to pass a prospective | to be sure you must sweep your chimney; bill for such an object. It was stated in but why don't you take two ducks, they the report, that no machine had yet been will do the job as well?" The zealots invented which was capable of completely for this bill had, in their blind eagerness to supplying the place of climbing boys. relieve a partial suffering, as completely When such a machine should be invented, forgotten the general interests of society, he would support a bill like the present; as the poor Irishman had disregarded the but until he saw such an invention he ducks in his anxiety to save the goose. would oppose every measure of the kind. He certainly should be happy to see the In the case of this bill, as in many other use of climbing boys totally abolished; but cases, mankind were carried away by ideas if a machine could be invented to sweep of humanity, which prevented them from chimnies, that invention could not be progiving due consideration to the subject. moted by this bill. He must, therefore, They took a partial view of the evil they move as an amendment, that, instead of wished to cure, and did not look at the now, the bill be committed this day six relation in which it stood to the general months. state of society. Hence they were not aware of the extent of the mischief their remedy would produce. The merits of the present bill might, perhaps, be illus-tracted from Joe Miller, but he believed trated by a story which he would take the liberty of telling their lordships, though he was himself the subject of it. The physician who had attended him in his late illness, had prescribed large doses of calomel; so much indeed, that he thought it necessary to ask him the reason of such prescriptions." Oh! (said the physician)sition to the bill. He now dwelt solely I can easily prove to you the advantage of my practice. The calomel is like the climbing boys, it finds its way into every corner and cranny of the frame, and sweeps every deleterious particle clean out; whereas the other sort of medicines resemble the machines, and accordingly do the business very imperfectly. They do not follow all angles and turnings, but pass over many important parts untouched, and leave heaps of matter, which afterwards kindle into mischief." If this story had any effect in explaining the policy of the measure, he might relate another, which perhaps would serve to render its humanity more intelligible. In some parts of Ireland it had been the practice, instead of employing climbing-boys, to tie a rope round the neck of a goose, and thus drag the bird up the chimney, which was cleaned by the fluttering of its wings. This practice so much interested the feelings of many persons, that, for the sake of protecting the goose, they seemed ready to give up all humanity towards other animals. A man in a country village having one day availed himself of the aid of a goose, was accused by his neighbour of inhumanity. In answer to the remonstances of his accuser, he observed, that he must have his chimney swept. (replied the humane friend of the goose),

"Yes,

on the danger which might be incurred in the metropolis if sweeping boys were abolished. What then had become of those general principles respecting free labour, on which the noble earl had so strongly insisted? Of those principles the noble earl now said nothing. The best argument for the bill was, that it would afford time and opportunity for making the arrangements necessary to the abolition of climbing boys. A sufficient time was allowed for experiments; and if the bill passed, every person, in anticipating the abolition of the present inhuman practice, would be induced to try the machines. If he saw any danger to the metropolis from the measure, he should be as unwilling to support it as any noble lord; but he could perceive no ground for any such apprehension. He thought, however, that unless the bill passed, the experiment would never be fairly made.

Their lordships divided on the question, that the bill be now committed: Contents, 20; Non-contents, 37.-Majority, 17. Lord Lauderdale's amendment was then put and carried. The bill was consequently lost.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. Monday, March 15. ROCHESTER ELECTION.] Mr. Gooch