events, and leave it to the logic of the minds of the Senators to reach their own conclusions. The grange and Farm Bureau had indorsed public operation of Muscle Shoals, and reversed themselves.

We must have cheap power on the farms. We have to have cheap fertilizer. Muscle Shoals is about one-tenth fertilizer, if I remember it, and nine-tenths power. Hang onto your water power if you want to help the farmers.

I apologize to the Senator from Alabama for discussing anything in his State.

Senator HEFLIN. It is all right to discuss things in my State if you can tell the truth about them.

Mr. MARSH. Senator, I would be very glad if you would point out where any statement I made is inaccurate.

Senator HEFLIN. I think your statement about these people selling out on the Muscle Shoals proposition is not true.

Mr. MARSH. That is a question of judgment, I will admit. Senator HEFLIN. Your statement about the attitude of these gentlemen with regard to the leasing of Muscle Shoals is not true.

Mr. MARSH. I will admit that it is a question of a difference of opinion. I will admit also that I notice Mr. Bradfute'did not get reelected. I will admit that Mr. Taber is going to have a fight, because you can fool a whole lot of the farmers a good deal of the time, but you can not get by with them with this stuff all the time.

I think a member of this committee was the secretary of the State grange up in Michigan, Miss Jennie Buell. It was a very able committee of the grange which passed on that question.

In conclusion-for I see the time is rapidly passing on-why is it that in the attempt to help agriculture you leave the gamblers in complete control of the whole domestic market for farm products, which is 90 per cent of the market? With the exception of cotton, and to a much lesser extent, wheat, and pork products, the big market for farm products is the domestic market. I wonder why Congress does not have a heart for the consumers of farm products here at home.

So, we suggest that you enact the Norris-Sinclair Government marketing corporation bill, which can handle at least the stable farm products and prevent speculating in them here at home, as well as abroad.

very

The CHAIRMAN. Now, Mr. Marsh, of course, I was the author of that bill. I spent a great deal of time on it and was very much in earnest about it. I think it would have relieved the situation greatly, particularly at that time. We got a favorable report on it from this committee. We got a favorable report at the next Congress on practically the same bill, which I had reintroduced, but it was defeated. I was broken hearted about it. I was very sorry that it was defeated. I would like to pass it yet, but I was up against the inevitable. It could not be done. We failed in it twice, and while I thought that would have brought relief, I had to concede that it was an impossibility to get it, and I got behind every other bill that I thought would bring some relief, even though it did nt bring what I thought it ought to. So, we are talking about something that is an impossibility. The opposition to it is too powerful.

Mr. MARSH. I know; but you asked me for a practical suggestion, Senator. In that connection, I was indulging in a practical sug

gestion.

The CHAIRMAN. Your answer is perfectly proper.

Mr. MARSH. In addition to that, let us realize that we may have a shortage of wheat. Will it pay us to dump all our wheat abroad if we have a little surplus? Very little, relatively, went abroad last year. If you are going to pass a bill of this sort, why not, if you have Government funds, empower this corporatin to buy and store for the future in a reasonable amount, wheat or other basic commodities? Do not compel them to buy and dump. I think that would be the least practical amendment.

Senator NORBECK. Mr. Marsh, as I understand it, the storing of the surplus here will simply mean an increased storage, because this country is not yet facing a situation where we will have a shortage of wheat. Therefore, we are trying to control the world market by a very limited storage in this country, and the influence on it might be very small. We are simply putting into storage a quantity of wheat and gambling that the world market will be higher next year.

Mr. MARSH. I do not think it is a gamble. The scientists have reached the point where they can look ahead pretty carefully by long-range weather forecasts. I was asked early in 1924 who was going to be the next President. I told them Wheat was going to be the next President. The long-range weather forecast was that there was going to be a short world crop and a good crop in the United States, and I said, if that were true-I did not advocate a third party on that account-that Calvin Coolidge would be overwhelmingly elected.

Statesmen, economists, and politicians have to learn the scientific facts as to long-range weather forecasting. I do not like to admit that politics is based on it, but it is.

Senator NORBECK. You will admit that the storage of wheat would be for the purpose of selling at a future date in the world market, and not in the domestic market?

Mr. MARSH. I think it might be both. I would leave it open to this corporation to decide. I do not think it should buy up all the surplus.

Senator NORBECK. I agree with you that there should be a storage of the surplus from good years, to take care of the lean years, but I do not see how it can have any great influence on the wheat market.

Mr. MARSH. It will have some influence on our own prices in this country. I would like to utilize our farm resources to the maximum

amount.

I thank you, gentlemen, for your courtesy. May I make this statement? I meant to do it before Senator Heflin left. When I talked about selling out, I did not mean getting money, but I do say that any person in public life who takes a position and then gets some honor from the appointing power of this country after reversing himself or his organization has got to subject himself to that charge, and I will stand on it.

I thank you very much for your courtesy.

The CHAIRMAN. We will meet to-morrow at 10.30.

(Whereupon, at 12 o'clock noon, the committee adjourned until to-morrow, Thursday, April 8, 1926, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.)

AGRICULTURAL RELIEF

THURSDAY, APRIL 8, 1926

UNITED STATES SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND FORESTRY,

Washington, D. C. The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, in room 326, Senate Office Building, Senator George W. Norris presiding. Present: Senators Norris (chairman), Capper, Gooding, Norbeck, Sackett, Kendrick, and Ferris.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Wells, do you wish to be heard now?
Mr. WELLS. Yes, sir.

STATEMENT OF MATTHEW B. WELLS, OF BLOOMINGTON, ILL.

The CHAIRMAN. Just give your name and address to the reporter. Mr. WELLS. Matthew B. Wells, of Bloomington, Ill. I am a native of Illinois. I am a farmer. I have a side line, banking business, and mercantile business.

My grandfather was a pioneer farmer and stockman of Illinois. He was born over here in Virginia and migrated as a boy to Tennessee, and migrated from Tennessee in a covered wagon with a yoke of oxen to Illinois, and engaged in the business of farming and stock raising, and feeding cattle and hogs, and made a success of it.

My father was a native of Illinois. He too was a farmer, stockman, and feeder.

I am a native of Illinois, and as I said before, I am a farmer, a stockman and feeder, and I come before this committee-I am sorry they are not all here to talk with you about a cause more sacred to the American farmer and stockman than was the cause of liberty to the Thirteen Colonies who secured their independence from Great Britain through the Revolution. That is what I want to talk about.

I am here to offer a remedy that will cure the ills and evils of the farmer, a practical remedy, a durable remedy, a proposition that can be done, and without going into a long line of detail and a long speech, I might say that it is the organization of the agricultural interests of this country.

I might further say that I represent the producers and consumers of the United States, of 48 States of this Union. I am a volunteer, at my own expense, and in behalf of the agricultural interests of the United States.

When labor was organized the laboring man was walking up and down the streets, from the Gulf of Mexico to Canada, looking these captains of industry in the face and asking for employment; he was told, "We have got no job for you." He was a scalawag and a tramp. I know. I saw him moving. Then Sam Gompers picked up

labor and organized it and put it on its feet, and to-day the American people take off their hat to organized labor. A plumber, if you please, gets more money per hour for his time than a Senator of the United States gets per hour for his time. If anybody has a little plumbing done you can test that. Organization did it.

I propose, gentlemen, to organize a corporation to be owned by the farmer and his friends and the public, with a capital and surplus for a starter of $400,000,000, with 800,000,000 shares at $50 per share, with the privilege of increasing that capital stock to $1,000,000,000, if necessary.

I would have a board of directors of 101 members, at least one director to be from each State in the Union, that board of directors to be selected and approved by the Senate Agricultural Committee, and to be approved by the President and the Secretary of Agriculture, or by the Senate and Congressional Committee on Agriculture.

That sounds pretty big, and probably your committee will not think that could be done, but it is an easy matter to do in 48 States.

In the city of Chicago, where I make my headquarters most of the time, we have on La Salle Street the Continental Commercial Bank with assets of $600,000,000. Right across the street from the Continental Commercial Bank is John Mitchell's bank, with assets of over $500,000,000. One block away is the old First National Bank, with assets of over $400,000,000, and a block south of the First National Bank is the electric light company, with assets of over $800,000,000. A few blocks farther south is the packing industry and stockyards, with assets of over a billion dollars. The street railways of Cook County, the surface lines, and the elevated lines have assets of over a billion dollars, and we have merchants in Chicago, Marshall Field & Co., and others, that I presume are worth over $400,000,000. So that in the loop district in Chicago, less than half a mile east and west and half a mile north and south we have 8 or 10 corporations, with capital and surplus of over $500,000,000, in Cook County alone.

Now, if this committee approves of my plan and reports it out to the Senate of the United States it can be passed into law. All we want the farmer to do is to organize himself and operate on his own capital. We want him to use his own money, he and his friends. Some of his friends are the automobile industry; the steel industry is a friend of the farmers; the manufacturing industries are friends of the farmers. The banking industry is the farmers' friend, because they need him. They have got to have him.

Now, with 48 States and with headquarters in the city of Chicago and headquarters in each State for the handling of the mercantile business of this country, it would not be any trouble to organize a corporation of that size. I know. I have organized 50 banks in my time, and in my opinion it was harder to organize some of those banks than it would be to organize this corporation.

Now, coming back to some of the matters that I have heard before both committees, I would like to comment for a moment or two upon some of the things that have been said.

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose you outline your corporation.

Mr. WELLS. I will give it to you in a minute. I have got it so that I can read it into the record, but you can not place a fee on meat and