be interpreted to give a power which should not be exercised-and I certainly agree with you on that-by this civilian administrative department, then let us try to find a way of clarifying it. We do not want the authority, and certainly we never would plan to exercise it to do more than those things that I have indicated, provide a base for representation in Washington for all the civil functions in Guam.

Senator ANDERSON. I am sure of that, and all I am trying to establish is sufficient testimony here at the hearings so that no one is going to be frightened by this language, so if we find some way of doing it we may do so. I understand the purposes of the Interior Department in its supervision perfectly, and I do not think it contemplates trying to tell the courts what to do.

Mr. WARNE. Never.

Governor SKINNER. Senator, one of the reasons we are proposing this bill is that we want to get away from that. At the present time the head of the civilian agency is over the courts. It is not exercised now because of the restraint of the head of the civilian agency. It does exist, and we want to get away from it.

Senator ANDERSON. Just one final question, Mr. Warne, and we are sorry you have to leave. However, we know how busy you are. The last question has to do with taxes and revenues. You have a provision that all customs duties and Federal income taxes, and certain other revenues collected in Guam shall be covered into the Treasury of Guam, which means that no person in Guam will be making any contribution to the Federal Government in any way, while at the same time taking from the Federal Government.

Here, again, do you have any knowledge as to whether that is the practice elsewhere? While it is the practice in Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico pays all its costs of its own government. This is the first step toward that same goal, is it not, this provision that no resident would pay any income tax into the Federal Treasury, but the Federal Government would assume the responsibility for the costs of administration?

Mr. WARNE. I would like to refer that to Governor Skinner.

Governor SKINNER. Mr. Chairman, this provision is put in so that Guam will be fully self-supporting. This provision has been very helpful to Puerto Rico in making her self-supporting, and the Department felt that Guam should not be a continuing drain on the Federal Treasury, and they put that provision in the act so that Guam within a very short time could become self-supporting.

Is

Senator ANDERSON. It would seem to me just the opposite. there any provision here that any of the receipts shall be applied against the Federal expenditures?

Governor SKINNER. No, sir.

Senator ANDERSON. Is there any contemplation of that, anything expressed that indicates it?

Governor SKINNER. I don't think that is needed, sir, because the island of Guam intends to spend all of its local revenues for governmental purposes. It only comes to the Federal Government for a Federal grant, and as soon as the local revenue increases the Federal grant goes down, and it is my firm intention and belief that within 2 or 3 years we will be able to eliminate the Federal grant.

Senator ANDERSON. I want to be sure that there is an intent to use these taxes for governmental purposes as in the case of Puerto Rico.

Governor SKINNER. That. is the intent, Senator. We also intend to find new sources of revenue which are not now used. We have a vigorous program for being self-supporting.

Senator ANDERSON. I know that our associates over in the House are busy also. I see Congressman Crawford and Congressman Lemke. Congressman Crawford, do you have any statement you desire to make on this bill?

STATEMENT OF HON. FRED L. Crawford, a REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MICHIGAN

Mr. CRAWFORD. Mr. Chairman, first, I will say as emphatically as I can that I am in favor of this bill. The administrative arm of our Government has proceeded out there toward removing the Guamanians from under the control of the Navy. Governor Skinner has been appointed and is on the job. It seems to me that the Congress owes expeditious action on this proposal. By all means, I think both the House and the Senate should act on the matter this session and put through some kind of a bill setting up an organic act along this line for Guam. I wholeheartedly support the Governor in his statement that we should approve a bill which gives the government of Guam the power to proceed to assess taxes to meet its operations, similar to that possessed by Puerto Rico at the present time. Based on what I have seen in Guam the three or four times I have visited there, I think the business interests, the property owners operating in Guam entirely outside Federal Government activities, are in a position to meet the budget required by the type of government which the Guamanians vote on themselves. I also think that Congress has sufficiently delayed the time for giving the Guamanians a greater participation in their own government.

We have had some protests there, as the members of this committee know, and it would seem to me those people are entitled to participation in the Government which governs them. I also think that with the changes proposed in this bill, the military authorities in Guam will give the Guamanians more rights than have been conceded to them since the cessation of hostilities in 1945.

When we were there we ran onto specific cases which, in my opinnion, were utterly outrageous and should not be perpetrated on the subjects of any country, praticularly on nationals of the United States, in the light of all that we have done and said in world affairs.

I repeat that I believe that if this bill is enacted, some of those matters will be cleaned up. I personally believe that there has been too much military domination in that particular area, even considering the upsets which occurred during the war. Now, if the Guamanians are not capable of substantially running their own local government, one way to determine it is to give them this responsibility. Let them arise to the occasion and do their best. If they then prove that they are incapable of running their affairs, the experience will be of some profit, I think. But I do not believe that will be the result.

There are some very smart people over there. They are ingenious; they are intelligent; they are energetic; they understand business; and they can do a lot for themselves just as we now find out the Puerto Ricans are beginning to do something for themselves. But they first had to have the opportunity. In Puerto Rico, when we gave the responsibility to the people, they shouldered that responsibility and are walking away with it. With all the industry going on in Puerto Rico, Puerto Ricans are earning their own way.

So, before closing, I would like to say that I happen to be one of those who is emphatically and categorically and aggressively in favor of putting more responsibility on the people of the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, American Guam, Hawaii, Alaska, and Puerto Rico. Let these people under the American flag take their position in the responsibilities which the Federal Government has assumed and thereby help pay their way through dedicating their services and their intelligence and their freedom and enterprise toward that end.

I think this bill moves in that direction. I am for it, and I hope your committee will do the necessary things in making such changes as you think advisable and let us get the bill through the two Houses and put into formal order.

Thank you.

Senator ANDERSON. Thank you, Congressman Crawford.
Mr. Lemke.

STATEMENT OF HON. WILLIAM LEMKE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA

Mr. LEMKE. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am in full accord with all that my colleague has said. I am glad to see our friend, Carl Skinner, here, and if he is not too modest, I want to say that he accomplished more in 6 months than I think all the rest of them did in 50 years.

Now, I want also to say that the chairman of my committee, Mr. Miles, and Congressman LeFevre, helped to form this bill into the present form, with the full consent of the Guamanians.

This bill is based upon our form of government. The President appoints the Governor, with the consent of the Senate. He also appoints the judges of the courts. The original idea of the courts is quite different from what we have in this bill, but we adopted the American system for the judiciary by providing that the President appoints the local court, but from their decision there is an appeal to the United States district court in California, and from there on to the circuit court, and if they feel that they have been aggrieved, to the Supreme Court of the United States. That is the same as it is in our State courts, and I think that it is proper that it be so. I can see no danger of abuse in this bill, because the President, by appointing the Governor, who has the veto power, and then also by appointing the judiciary, fully protects any interests that the United States, the mainland, may have.

Now, as to abuses, I am not going to comment on those. We found it true in Guam by this so-called one-man government who could change his mind overnight, and his dictates were law. There were plenty of signs of abuse, not only in Guam, but all over the islands we have visited.

For instance, in Guam the military took the lands of people and forgot to even ask them now much they wanted, or to pay for it. Then, finally, one of the finest places in all the islands I have ever seen the Governor lives on it now-and Admiral Nimitz had his headquarters there, and the present admiral is there-they finally offered, after they heard our committee was coming, $14.10 rental for 14 acres of perhaps the most beautiful spot anywhere in the world.

Then we went to the island of Saipan, and we find that the military still has a large portion of agricultural land that was taken without even an offer to pay for it at all. Under this bill those settlements will be forced.

Then I will say further that some of the witnesses were afraid to testify. When we asked them why, and they said they were afraid of reprisals, I asked them, "From where or from whom?", and they spoke finally when we told them they were free to speak.

Now, it seems to me if we are going to set an example in the world of government by and for the people, it is about time we start in with some of these islands we govern, and Guam is one of them.

I feel that an organic act is long past due-that this bill should have been passed a long time ago. I can see no objection to this bill after 3 days of hearings and we had four afternoon sessions on it. The bill was unanimously approved by the Guamanians as well as by our committee, and we feel we have as near a perfect bill as we can in the first instance. No legislation that is ever recommended is perfect. There will be room perhaps later on for amendments. I would like to see the bill passed without very many amendments at this time, because the present bill is what the Guamanians expect. It is what they are accustomed to.

I would say that as far as these taxes and so forth are concerned, that I think you will find that the Guamanians will become selfsupporting, but this bill will have to be in operation a little while. I am going to ask the Governor now, have they returned that 26,000 acres that the military agrees it does not need and which we in Public Lands were told 2 years ago that the military did not need and was going to return when we got over there last fall?

Governor SKINNER. Some of it has been returned, Congressman, and they plan to return most of it before July 1.

Mr. LEMKE. If that is done, will you agree with me that it will be a long step toward making the Guamanians self-supporting?

Governor SKINNER. A very long step, because they can go back to farming. Now their farm land is being held by the military for air strips, ammunition dumps, and things like that.

Mr. LEMKE. I think that is all I have to say, unless there are some questions.

Senator ANDERSON. Representative Lemke, there was a question I raised earlier. I was anxious to get the meaning of it. It is in the House bill, which is on page 2 of the House bill, lines 4 through 8. There is a statement that I would like to get clarified as to the meaning.

The government of Guam shall consist of three branches, executive, legislative, and judicial, and shall be under the supervision of the head of such civilian department or agency of the Government of the United States as the President may direct.

Do you understand by that that the Department of the Interior shall have supervision over the legislative, executive and judicial branches of the Guamanian government?

Mr. LEMKE. I would say yes, in a general way. The President can change it if he wants to. It rests more with the President than under the Department of the Interior.

Senator ANDERSON. Of course, we do not have that in this country, do we? He does not have supervision over the legislative and the judicial branch?

Mr. LEMKE. I will state that personally I am perfectly willing for you to eliminate that part, but it was put in because we found that there might be some opposition in the House if we did not. There are always people who are afraid that some of these islands may run away with us, which I know is not the case after I have been over there. Senator ANDERSON. Do you have any feelings, either you or Representative Crawford, on the size of the legislature and whether or not unicameral body with perhaps a limited number of members might be desirable? There was feeling in an earlier hearing of the Senate that 51 members of a bicameral body were quite a few for 26,000

voters.

Mr. LEMKE. That may be true, but they are not on a very big piece of land, and they can readily meet, and it would bring the government closer to the people.

Senator ANDERSON. While we are on that theory, a city council of a town of 25,000 could have 50 members at 15 or 16 dollars a day, and there would be some comment about it. I just wondered if you have any feeling as to the necessity for the size of the group.

Mr. LEMKE. As to the size, I have no feeling one way or the other. I feel, however, that there should be a representative body representing them because these native people are somewhat different than we are in their customs and in their households and management of their country.

Mr. CRAWFORD. Mr. Chairman, I would like to go on record in opposition to as many as 51, or more than 30, after they are set up and get under way. I see no necessity for such a large body to represent such a small number of people but, as I understand the provisions of this bill, that is something they can determine themselves after this bill becomes law, and if they are foolish enough to have 51 or 75 or 150 people sitting there eating up their substance through the tax bodies, why, that to me would demonstrate that they are poor-that would demonstrate their poor judgment in providing a government. They do not need those expensive governments, and I would like to get it in the record so that people who are here now will know my personal views on it. I hope they cut it down to 15 after the thing gets started. Senator ANDERSON. Thank you. I want to say that I somewhat subscribe to your view. I could not say too definitely because I have never been to Guam and I have never had a chance to study it, but it would seem to me that an assembly of 15 members, with the Governor and Lieutenant Governor, would be a sufficient administrative body for that rather small number of people, and that anything that ran larger than that might run into too much administrative expense perhaps in elections and perhaps in payment of regular salaries.