SENATE.]

Public Lands.

[JAN. 17, 1833.

them your agents, you expend it upon objects which the| therefore, instead of reducing the public burdens, instead most zealous friends of internal improvements by the Ge- of doing away the just causes of complaint which exist in neral Government would never dream of. Is this not the country, you are fastening them upon the commu-doing, as I have said, that indirectly which you cannot do nity. Make, if you please, the most liberal allowance for directly? Would you not, by the instrumentality of the the support of the Government of the United States-a State Legislatures, be doing acts which you have not the tariff, producing twelve millions, added to the three miconstitutional power to perform yourselves? The second lions arising from the sales of the public lands, will supobject to which the money is to be applied by this bill, is port the Government; but give these three millions away, education. I admit the full value of this object; but has and you create the necessity of adding three millions to the it entered into the mind of any public man, that Congress tariff; this, therefore, is a tariff measure. It is to create could establish a system of education in the different a demand or necessity for more money; and when this ncStates? Such a proposition has never been made, and, if cessity is created, I should myself feel bound, if it demade at any future period, it surely can meet with no favor pended on my single vote, to fix the rate of duties high in this body; and I ask Senators to reflect and consider enough to produce the requisite amount. I have been whether there be any substantial difference, in point of compelled to give my opinion in reference to the tariff, constitutional power, between this Government's doing it because it is connected with the subject-matter of this itself, and giving the money to the States, and directing bill. There is another reason why I object to this meathem to do it? sure: it will operate deceptively; it looks like a gift upon As to the third provision in the bill, which is to expend its face to the States, but at the same time the people of the money in transporting the free people of color to Li- the States are taxed to make up the amount; it looks as if beria, on the coast of Africa, I consider it perfectly vi- the States were getting something from the General Gosionary; and this provision in the bill would be harmless, vernment; but when it is recollected that a tax is imposed were it not for the infraction of the constitution involved in to supply the deficiency in the treasury, occasioned by it, because I do not believe that the State Legislatures this measure, the deception is at once discovered, and the would so apply the money; they would expend it on objects delusion vanishes. in their own States. From what part of the constitution The politicians of the United States have been speakis the power thus to expend money derived? How can ing and writing about State rights and State independence it be contended that this Government can furnish money from the very foundation of this Government; and, acto better the condition of the free man of color, when it is cording to my humble judgment, nothing that could be admitted that you cannot give money to a poor man to invented by Congress would operate so fatally against better his situation-no, not even to remove him from these doctrines as this measure. If the States are to reone part of the United States to another? ceive annually from this Government large sums of money I will now proceed to another branch of this subject. which may be withheld at pleasure, can you expect that If I were in favor of this measure; if I believed it author- manly spirit and strong language of remonstrance from ized by the constitution; if I believed it wise and State Legislatures which we have sometimes witnessed politic, I would not at this time give my assent to it. It It is with communities as with individuals, that a man loses is, and it cannot be concealed, a tariff measure. It is to his independence who is in the habit of living upon the keep up the duties on imports; and here I wish to be dis- bounty of another. He knows that to incur the displeatinctly understood, I have contributed nothing by any sure of his benefactor may produce a withdrawal of that vote or act of mine to produce the present state of excite-bounty which he has enjoyed; and the fear of this lessens ment which exists in the country. I will do nothing to his independence; he loses his own will, and adopts that increase or aggravate it. I will yield nothing to intimi- of another as the rule of his conduct. The true mode upon dation, or to that hostile array which is displaying itself which to administer this Government is, to keep the opein the South. I will neither go faster nor slower. I will rations of the Federal and State Governments distinct and neither be accelerated nor retarded in my movements by separate. In this way, that confliction which produces any occurrence of that kind; but there are considerations discord is avoided. The State Governments possess certo which I am prepared to yield much. To that deep tain means of raising revenue to enable them to persense of injustice, long continued, which is felt by the form their respective functions; and the State Governwhole South, and by a great portion of the West, I would ments should never depend upon the General Government yield much. To the apprehension that oppression, long for the means of acting upon the subjects confided to them. persisted in, which is heavy, and cannot be always borne, So long as each Government depends upon its own means, might weaken, and in time alienate, the affections of any it is independent, and no longer. We already see the great portion of the community from this Government, 1 effects produced in some of the States by this anticipated am ready to yield any thing which will not produce in-reliance upon the national treasury. Pennsylvania and justice to others. However, whether the tariff be re- Ohio have contracted large debts for internal improvements, duced or not, I am in favor of executing the laws and pre-and they are now pressing this measure with a view to observing the Union, and so far as my voice will go, the tain money to meet the annual interest falling due upon Executive shall be furnished with all the means ne- their State treasuries. Is there not danger that you will cessary to accomplish these objects. Under this view place all the States in a similar condition, if you encouof the subject, let us examine the effect to be pro-rage them to undertake expensive internal improvements duced by the passage of this bill, and ascertain whether, beyond their own means of payment? instead of alleviating the public burdens, and removing the Further, I am opposed to this bill, because it will regrievances now felt and complained of, we are not giving tard the improvement and settlement of the Western a certain assurance that they never shall be removed. The country. In what I say upon this subject, I know I feel, public sentiment seems now settled, and we scarcely hear and shall speak, as a Western man. There is a greater a voice to the contrary, from any quarter, that the public portion of my affections, of my regards, than can exist revenue must be brought down to the wants of the Gov- elsewhere. If you say that the price of the public lands, ernment; if you, however, give away annually nearly three (which is evidently the design of this bill,) even of poor millions of your money, arising from the sale of the pub-quality, shall never be reduced, but at all times remain at lic lands, you thereby create the necessity of keeping up the sum now fixed by the laws of the United States, for a tariff to that amount, higher than would be necessary the purpose of distribution among the several States, you if the proceeds of the public lands were placed in the thereby prevent a dense population, and the cultivation treasury, to defray the expenditures of the Government; of soil of inferior quality. It cannot be expected, under

JAN. 17, 1833.]

Public Lands.

[SENATE.

this new system, that any favors or indulgence will ever of Indians. It has been said that these preference or ocbe extended to the settlers in the new States; a feeling cupant rights have not proved beneficial to the early adin opposition to a liberal spirit towards the inhabitants venturers of the Western country. Gentlemen whto make of new States will be engendered in the different States; this statement possess less knowledge than I do, or a dif and avarice, the most unfeeling passion that inhabits the ferent language would be used by them. The State of human breast, will forbid the distribution of favors amongst Virginia gave to each of the early settlers of the now State those who most need them. I readily admit that the shift-of Kentucky four hundred acres of a settlement right, ing of population from one section of country to another and a pre-emption of a thousand acres adjoining, at a price does not increase the population; but I by no means ad- merely nominal. The State of North Carolina, actuated mit that it may not increase the national strength and pros- by a similar liberal spirit, gave a pre-emption of six hunperity. The Government owes it to its citizens, as a duty, dred and forty acres to each of the early settlers in what to furnish all the means in its power to render them col- is now West Tennessee; and although it is true that but lectively and individually happy and independent. When few of these men remain at the present day, having been you put it in the power of every man, however poor and slain by the hostile savages, or having died by reason of humble he may be, to acquire a freehold of forty, eighty, great exposure and hardships, and from other causes, yet or one hundred and sixty acres of land, the Government I will venture to say that the descendants of no class of has done its duty; and if idle and dissipated men will not men in that vast region of country are more respected, take care of themselves and household, will not embrace or have more distinguished themselves in the learned proand enjoy the bounty of their country, the Government is fessions, or have been greater ornaments to the benches not responsible for their failure. of justice, or have acquired more fame in legislative halls. At the last session I was told that my argument upon In regard to what is called the Green River country, in this subject was not sound, because those who worked in the State of Kentucky, it was settled upon the principle the manufactories were as good citizens as those who of occupancy; and there is no portion of that State, consicultivated the soil: that may be so. My principle, how-dering the quality of the soil, which contains a better or ever, is this: make your citizens independent--and no more substantial population. As to Tennessee, this has man is so independent as he who gets his own livelihood been her uniform policy; and by its wisdom we have upon his own soil, and is not dependent upon the will of changed tenants and day-laborers into independent freeothers. A man thus situated is dependent upon Provi-holders. I am inclined favorably to the amendment prodence and his own exertions alone; he is not subject to posed by the Committee on Public Lands, and will vote the whim and caprice of others by whom he may be em- that each settler upon the public domain shall be entitled ployed: his livelihood cannot be endangered by the failure to a preference right at fifty cents per acre, upon condition of capitalists, which is the case with all those employed that he reside on it for five years in succession: this latter in manufacturing establishments. I therefore prefer that provision will prevent all fraud and peculation, and sethis Government should provide by its laws that every cure to him who needs it a home at a cheap rate. man of industry may acquire, at a cheap rate, a portion Upon a full view of the whole subject, my reflections of the public domain. With respect to the policy which result in this: that the new States have no exclusive claim I advocate-taking off a portion of the population of the to these lands, and that the States, as such, taken altoold States-I can fully appreciate it. Tennessee will be gether, have no other claim to them or their proceeds deprived of many of its most valuable citizens; with me, than they have to moneys arising from other sources of however, this forms no objection; I will never legislate to revenue; and, of course, Congress has no power to give it keep men where they are, that others may be benefited to the States, or to apply it to any other objects or purposes by their labor. Should any of my fellow-citizens consult than those conferred on Congress by the constitution. me upon the subject of their removal, my language to By giving this destination to this fund, we fulfil the dethem would be, "We should be glad if you could find it sign and expectation of the original donors, as well as the to your interest to remain amongst us, because we are un-intention of the old Congress, to whom the donations willing to part with you; but if you can make yourself were made. By the constitution of the United States, more happy and independent, if you can better provide the title to these lands is transferred to the new Governfor yourselves and families by going to a new country, ment, on which, by that instrument, the burden is placed go, and prosperity attend you.' This is the way I feel, of paying the national debt; of carrying on our foreign and this is the way I incline to act towards the citizens of intercourse with all nations; of raising and supporting my own State: and why should we feel any prejudice the army and navy; of sustaining the Executive, Judicial, against this policy? The now waste lands are to be the and Legislative branches of this Government. These are homes of our children, and childrens' children; let us then legitimate subjects of public expenditure, and to these adopt a liberal policy for their improvement. It should should this fund be applied; they are for the common also be recollected that we have a very extensive expos-benefit of all, and therefore within the meaning of the ed frontier in the West; we have gathered all the Indian deeds of cession. Upon the subject of graduating the tribes together; we have concentrated that which makes price, I think the Government should adopt the same a formidable force, which may, at some future period, be rule which any prudent man, who owned a large quantity employed against the United States. How can we pro- of land, and was anxious to sell it, would pursue; that vide against attacks from that quarter in any way so effec-would certainly be to lower the price, whenever all the tually as by having a dense population in the immediate lands of first quality were sold, and he could not find neighborhood? By this means you will also lessen the ex-purchasers who would buy lands of inferior quality at the penditures of the Government, and give security to those price originally fixed, after the public lands have remainwho are now most exposed to danger. Another consi- ed in market at the minimum price for ten or fifteen deration of great weight upon this subject is, that New years. Surely it would be sound policy to offer them at Orleans, the great commercial city of the West, will al- a lower rate; this would not only be beneficial to the ways be the point of attack aimed at by a powerful fo- General Government, but the advantage to the new reign enemy with whom we may be at war. The best States would be incalculable, as thereby the whole lands security you can afford it will be found in thickly lining within their respective limits would become subject to the banks of the Mississippi, and filling up the adjacent State taxation. I, therefore, am willing at this time to

country with freemen interested in the soil. An oppor-vote for giving settlement rights to occupants at fifty tunity to do this is now presented by the recent acquisi- cents per acre, and to graduate the price according to tions of territory from the Choctaw and Chickasaw tribes the different qualities of land, and to reject at once the

JAN. 18, 19, 1833.]

Cumberland Road.-Public Lands.-Evidence of Claims.

PUBLIC LANDS..

[SENATE.

amendment which he offered proposed to continue it to the frontier of the State, covered with insidious savages, The Senate then proceeded to the special order of the to a military post which needed a communication with the centre of the State, and to the intersection of the day, being the bill to appropriate, for a limited time, the Santa Fé road, annually travelled by the caravans of proceeds of the sales of the public lands, &c. The question pending being on the motion of Mr. Missouri. The fate of this application would depend POINDEXTER to amend the original bill-upon those who were the advocates of internal improveMr. MOORE moved to postpone the further considerament. Many members denied the power of Congress to tion of the bill until Monday, on account principally of make these improvements; of course their votes could not be looked for; to those who admitted the power, and advocated the system, and voted a million annually for improvements in other quarters, the fate of this applica

tion must be committed.

the indisposition, and consequent absence, of a member who was desirous to record his vote against the original bill. Mr. CLAY suggested that there was also a Senator on the other side absent; but that he would rather hazard the loss of the bill than postpone it any longer. He asked for the yeas and nays on the question of postponement,

Mr. POINDEXTER stated that he had not been as yet enabled to obtain all the information which he had expected to acquire from documents to which he desired to refer. It was a subject of great national importance, and he thought it improper to hasten a decision. In addition to these considerations, he much wished to give his views of it, but was at this moment laboring under a violent attack of cold. He hoped, therefore, that the subject would be postponed till Monday, as it was known that the other House would not go into an examination of this matter until the tariff question should be disposed of.

Mr. CHAMBERS thought the views of the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. BENTON] conflicted with those advanc-and they were ordered. ed yesterday by Mr. GRUNDY. The argument of the latter gentleman was more in unison with what was considered orthodox in a certain quarter, than that of the gentleman from Missouri, on the subject of the nationality, &c. of a particular class of internal improvements. He regretted that the gentleman from Tennessee was not in his seat, as he might feel bound to vindicate his views on this subject. There was a measure pending before the Senate, however, (the land bill,) which, if adopted, would relieve gentlemen from the necessity of making nice distinctions on the subject of the nationality of this or that improvement. Until that measure was disposed of, he considered it unnecessary to act on the bill now before the Senate, and he therefore moved to lay it on the table. Mr. SMITH would vote to lay the bill on the table for a different reason; he wished further time to examine the subject, particularly the amendment of the gentleman from Missouri, [Mr. BENTON.]

Mr. BUCKNER requested that the motion to lay the bill on the table should be withdrawn for a moment; which being done

The question was then taken on the motion to postpone, and decided as follows:

YEAS.-Messrs. Benton, Bibb, Black, Brown, Buckner, Calhoun, Forsyth, Grundy, Hill, Kane, King, Mangum, Miller, Moore, Poindexter, Rives, Robinson, Smith, Tipton, Tyler, White, Wright.--22.

NAYS.-Messrs. Bell, Chambers, Clay, Clayton, Dickerson, Dudley, Ewing, Foot, Frelinghuysen, Hendricks, Holmes, Johnston, Knight, Naudain, Prentiss, Robbins, Ruggles, Seymour, Sprague, Tomlinson, Waggaman, Webster.-22.

So the motion to postpone was lost, (the Senate being equally divided upon it.)

Mr. KING then addressed the Senate, at length, in opposition to the original bill, and in support of the Mr. CHAMBERS spoke in reply.

amendment.

Mr. BUCKNER moved to postpone the further consideration of the subject until Monday, in order to have an opportunity to move that, when the Senate adjourns, it adjourn to meet on Monday.

Mr. CLAY asked for the yeas and nays, which were ordered.

Mr. POINDEXTER said a few words in favor of adjournment.

Mr. BUCKNER expressed a hope that the bill would not be further postponed. It had been some time before the Senate, and contained a plain proposition, involving no new principle. He could see no reason why this bill should be made to give place to the land bill, or any other favorite measure. There seemed to have been a species of discipline and training connected with this land bill, which was disreputable, and at war with a free and fair course of legislation. Every important measure which came up was drawn within the vortex of the land bill, which appeared to have been gotten up principally with a view He warned to rivet upon the country the present tariff. gentlemen that this course might be attended with a different effect from that which was intended. He had himself been an advocate of the tariff; but when an effort was made to sustain it by an unjust, and sordid, and corrupt Mr. WEBSTER objected to any other adjournment course of legislation, he warned gentlemen to beware of than from day to day, in the present state of the public the consequences. Was it desired that the present bill At the same time, he felt a strong disposition should be postponed, in order that gentlemen might re-to give every indulgence to the gentleman from Missisvenge themselves for the vote which its friends might sippi. He then moved that the Senate do now adjourn. think proper to give on the land bill? This was certainly an unjust course of proceeding. If the bill now before the Senate should fail, he wished it remembered that it had perished by the hands of those who had given birth to the principles upon which it was founded. Shall those who first stood forth the advocates of internal improvements be the first to destroy their own offspring? This was unnatural. He preferred that every measure should be tested by its own merits, unconnected with any other subject. A different course of legislation was unwise and improper, if not dishonest.

He had no objection that the bill should lie on the table, to allow any gentleman an opportunity for examination; but protested against postponing it, for the reasons which had been assigned by the gentleman from Maryland, [Mr. CHAMBERS.]

The bill was then laid on the table.

business.

The motion was agreed to, and
The Senate adjourned.

SATURDAY, JANUARY 19.

EVIDENCE OF CLAIMS.

On motion of Mr. SMITH, the previous orders were postponed, and the Senate proceeded to consider the joint resolution authorizing the Secretary of State to deliver to the commissioners under the French treaty the evidences of any claims delivered to and rejected by the commissioners under the Spanish treaty.

The resolution having been read a second time, it was taken up as in Committee of the Whole.

Mr. SMITH then stated that the Committee on Finance had, in reporting this resolution, departed a little from the regular rule. The committee had been instructed

SENATE.]

Evidence of Claims.--Public Lands.

[JAN. 19, 1833.

to inquire into the expediency of employing clerks to Kentucky, who introduced the bill at the last and the make copies of these documents. They had made in- present session of Congress, but for the deep interest quiry of the Secretary of State as to the cost of making which my immediate constituents have in the final dispothese copies, and are told that it would amount to $10,600. sition which may be made of the lands of the United Other inquiries which were made resulted in a conviction States, in common with all the new States of the confedes that the mode suggested by the resolution would be the racy, and the high obligation which devolves on me, as most convenient and the most prompt, and one which the a Senator from one of these new States, to vindicate Secretary had stated as giving him sufficient authority to their interests and advance their prosperity, on all prodeliver over the originals. per occasions, not inconsistent with justice to the other members of the Union.

Mr. FORSYTH said that the committee seemed to have forgotten the instructions which had been given to them. I am admonished by the state of my health, as well as They were required to make an appropriation for the by the anxiety which has been manifested by the Senate, necessary clerks. It was true that there would be a con- to bring this discussion to a close, of the propriety, and siderable saving of expense if the originals were handed I may add the necessity, of confining my remarks within over to the commissioners; but the question was whether the narrowest limits which the importance of the subject this could be done consistently with the treaty with Spain? will permit. The President, in his annual message, brings If it could, the Secretary had the power of handing over the great question of the public lands distinctly before the papers; if he had it not, the Senate could not give it to Congress; and, besides the notice which he takes of the him. He should, therefore, vote against the resolution. various propositions heretofore submitted for an equitaMr. SPRAGUE said he had always been of the opinion ble and proper disposal of these lands, he recommends that the construction of the treaty which required these for our consideration a specific plan, resulting from his papers to be kept in any particular building was a very own reflections on the subject, which I shall, in the prolimited one. He did not understand that they were pa-gress of my remarks, take occasion to contrast with the pers over which Spain could have any control. They provisions of the bill on the table, and endeavor to show are the documents relating to claims which had been dis- the effects of each system on the general welfare and allowed. Spain could hardly expect that we should re-future tranquillity of the country, in reference to this most tain documents of this character forever. She could have important branch of national wealth and internal policy. nothing more to do with them. If the narrow construc- But, sir, I cannot consent, in the arrangement of this tion to which he referred was to be adhered to, why difficult and perplexing question, to stop at the mere could not the commissioners sit in rooms in the Depart- point of distribution, however much I may approve the ment of State? He presumed that there could be no dif- measure. I desire to go further, and provide at once ficulty in this. But believing that there could be no ne- for the poor emigrants, by securing to those who actucessity for this, he should vote for the resolution. ally inhabit and cultivate a tract of land of a limited quantity, for a number of years, to be specified, the right of pre-emption, at a moderate price, to the land so inhabited and cultivated. I wish also to incorporate in any bill which may be passed a provision for an equitable graduation of the minimum price at which the public lands are now directed by law to be sold, and thereby place lands of inferior quality at a rate which may induce men in moderate circumstances to purchase and cultivate Mr. SILSBEE expressed his inability to discover how them. With these salutary modifications, the system of it was possible that the treaty of Florida could have any distribution proposed will be acceptable not only to the more effect on these papers than on any of the claims put old but the new States of the confederacy. It will do in for indemnity against spoliations committed by the justice to every portion of the Union, and on that founFrench previous to 1800. The documents referred to dation alone can we hope to inspire confidence and give captures condemned in French ports, and the claims durability to the plan which it is proposed to carry into founded on them had been rejected. Now, to establish these claims against France, it was necessary to produce these documents. The Secretary does not feel himself at liberty to give them up. This was very hard on the claimants, and in some way or other they ought to be relieved. He should therefore vote for the resolution.

Mr. KANE thought the only question was, whether it is necessary that these documents should be where they would be submitted to the personal inspection of the commissioners? If so, and if copies would not answer, and the Secretary could not let the originals go from his custody without this resolution was passed, it ought to pass. Mr. SMITH and Mr. FORSYTH reiterated what they had before stated.

On motion of Mr. FOOT, the resolution was amended by adding the words:

"Which evidences shall be returned to the Department of State when the commission shall expire."

The resolution was then reported as amended, and the amendment having been concurred in, the resolution was ordered to be engrossed, and read a third time.

PUBLIC LANDS.

The Senate then proceeded to the consideration of the bill to appropriate, for a limited time, the proceeds of the sales of the public lands, the question being on Mr. POINDEXTER's amendment.

After the failure of a motion to postpone the bill to Monday-

Mr. POINDEXTER rose and said: Mr. President, I should not have risen to partake of the debate on the interesting question brought before the Senate by the bill on your table, especially after the very able view which has been taken of it by the honorable Senator from

effect, by the passage of the bill now under consideration. The origin of the title of the United States to the eminent domain seems to be generally conceded. On this point there exist but slight shades of difference in the opinions expressed by honorable Senators who have preceded me in this discussion.

The sources from which our title has sprung may be divided into the three following classes:

1st. Voluntary cessions from the States having within their chartered limits a large extent of waste and unappropriated territory.

2d. Cessions from the States, founded on purchase, for a valuable consideration.

3d. Cessions from foreign nations since the adoption of the federal constitution, founded on purchase, for a valuable consideration.

In this latter class Ido not include purchases from the Indian tribes or nations, because the right of soil in the United States existed prior to these purchases, and no other title has ever been recognised in the Indian tribes but the right of occupancy, which has from time to time been extinguished by the numerous Indian treaties which are to be found in the archives of the Government.

I shall proceed to examine these various cessions, and the conditions in which they were made, in connexion